Tenerife Disaster 1977 Options

[Clipper275]

Hi GUys lnow lets go back to 1977 where the worst disaster happened in Tenerife Who is Responsable for the Crash


Cheers Christopher Siegrist

[galaxy]

Accident Investigation:

There were many questions regarding the cause of this accident:

1. Why had Captain van Zanten commenced take off with out the ATC clearance to do so?

2. Why had Captain Grubbs been instructed to vacate the runway at taxi way 3, which would have taken him back towards the main apron, and not T4 which would have put him on the holding point for runway 30?

3. Why did the KLM crew not grasp the significance of the Pan Am aircraft's report that it had not yet cleared the runway, and would report again to the tower when it did?

The final accident report found that Jacob Van Zanten was solely responsible for the accident. The fundamental factors in the development of the accident were the facts that van Zanten:

- Took off without being cleared to do so.
- Did not heed the air traffic controller's instruction to stand by for take off.
- Did not abandon take off when he knew the Pan Am aircraft was still taxiing.

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa1736.shtml

[boeing2]

Far to many factors to blame it on one person.

Use of non-standard phrases by the KLM co-pilot ("We're at take off") and the Tenerife control tower ("O.K.") is one i always remember.

The fact that there is near chaos, due to the bomb scare. The airport was too small, the authoritarian environment in the KLM cockpit all played their role.

Dave

[Clipper275]

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa1736.shtml

Look i think Captain Jacob veldhyuzen Van Zanten did the most terrible Mistake that a Caiptain can do! but Lets go Now to the PanAm Mr Victor Grubbs Lost His Life in an Aircraft called Clipper Victor it is a Little Bit Tragic
But in The Dutch Plane all Lost their Lifes In The PanAm First Officer did Survive


Cheers Christopher

[c150student]

I've seen numerous documentaries on that one incident, and each one highlights what really is a chain of events leading to the disaster. If any link of the chain was broken, the chances are the crash wouldn't have happened.

A bomb scare in another airport diverted many aircraft to Tenerife. It was very, very full, and was not used to having the size and number of aircraft that were present. Fog came in, reducing visbility to minima. Whilst waiting on the ground, Van Zanten decided he would refuel his KLM 747. This meant that the Pan Am was stuck where it was until the KLM had finished refueling. This added to the impacience felt by both crews. The KLM was instructed to taxi to the ennd of the runway by backtracking along it, and the Pan Am told to follow but to vacate at the third exit. This fact was acknowledged by the Pan Am crew. ATC also told the KLM crew that they were cleared after departure, to do X, Y and Z. THIS WAS NOT A TAKEOFF CLEARANCE.

The Pan Am Pilot taxiied off at the fourth taxiway. This taxiway was at a better angle for his 747, but it was still the wrong one. The KLM Pilot, now at the end of the runway ('Ready for DEPARTURE') used incorrect phraseology 'KLM is at takeoff', and was in a bit of a hurry. Well, quite a lot of a hurry really. Subconsciously, he, and possibly the rest of the crew, probably though all the problems they were experiencing on the ground would vanish once they took off. The rest of the crew were at doubt as to whether the runway was clear, but Van Zanten had lots of experienece, and was KLM's most experienced and respected pilots. The crew voiced their concerns as the 747 was accelerating, but the captain dismissed them, and, he was more experienced, so obviously he was right...

The Pan Am crew heard the 'KLM is at takeoff' transmission, and this concerned them. They called up on the radio, saying they were still on the runway. However, at the same time, someone else used the radio too. The result was a heterodyne; a squeal that blocked out both transmissions. Van Zanten, now accelerating down the runway, would have heard the transmission and aborted the takeoff. But the heterodyne interefered, and he heard nothing of use to him.

When he finally saw the Pan Am 747 (which was trying to get off the runway as quickly as possible as they saw the KLM landing lights) he pulled back sharply on the controls to try and get off the ground. The tail struck the ground, and as the aircraft lifted into the air, it crashed into the top of the Pan Am 747, and came to rest further down the runway.

Another few things: Captain Van Zanten was an instructing pilot, and so had spent a majority of his time leading up to the accident in a simulator, which is a very different environment to the real world cockpit.
Van Zanten had decided to refuel before the accident. This made the plane heavier, and so the KLM may have been able to climb in time had the plane been less heavily fueled.
To add insult to injury, as soon as ATC found out there was an accident, fire crews were sent out. However, they went to the KLM plane, which had no survivors. They didnt realise until later on that another 747, further up the runway, was also in trouble, with many people needing urgent assistance.

A tragic day, but a million lessons learned.

EDIT: And only NOW do I realise that galaxy actually posted a link to an article on it earlier.......

[galaxy]

And only NOW do I realise that galaxy actually posted a link to an article on it earlier.......

I have read your explanation attentively and it was very captivating .
I wish I could write like you did.

[wannabeapilot]

Watch one of the many documentaries on the Tennerife incident. To name a one, Seconds from Disaster on the National Geographic Channel is one that replays every now and then.

[SF3aviatrix]

Watch one of the many documentaries on the Tennerife incident....

Clips:
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmItf4Um7EA

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLYaZ3Ek8yY

[A340-600]

i actually read a lot about this, even watched a two hour documentary about it on the history channel and in my opinion, i believe that it was mainly the KLM crew's fault for the following reasons:
1)the pilot took on more fuel that was needed
2)he was inpatient and wanted to get off the ground as quickly as possible, and therefore forgot to request a take off clearance, just a clearance to the waypoint
3)when the first officer realized that the pilot had begun the take-off roll, he was too scared to say anything as the pilot was the one who gave him his license
4)Even if the ATC made a mistake and cleared the KLM 747 for take-off, the pilot knew that there was another aircraft on the runway.

[SF3aviatrix]

i actually read a lot about this, even watched a two hour documentary about it on the history channel and in my opinion, i believe that it was mainly the KLM crew's fault for the following reasons:
1)the pilot took on more fuel that was needed
2)he was inpatient and wanted to get off the ground as quickly as possible, and therefore forgot to request a take off clearance, just a clearance to the waypoint
3)when the first officer realized that the pilot had begun the take-off roll, he was too scared to say anything as the pilot was the one who gave him his license
4)Even if the ATC made a mistake and cleared the KLM 747 for take-off, the pilot knew that there was another aircraft on the runway.

1) the amount of fuel didn't have anything to do with taking off without a clearance but true if they had only been airborne a bit earlier.....
2) Yes, Van Zaanten heard only what he wanted to hear. A bad case of get-there-itis that turned fatal
3) why should he have felt unable to speak up? Personally I rather by walking and talking than avoid stepping on the captains toes. Too many accidents/incidents were the result of this kind of cockpit. Thank God CRM was developed as a result.
4) Not necessarily. The other day I was in the landing flare on 24L at LAX when ATC cleared a Cactus 737 down field to cross 24L in front of us and go to ground. I was on the freq real quick announcing our position and ATC barked "Cactus HOLD SHORT" yet the Cactus was already on the move. Did he look? Probably not. Was he aware another a/c was landing on the parallel? He should have been as we were on freq together for several minutes and radio calls.

[A340-600]

1) the amount of fuel didn't have anything to do with taking off without a clearance but true if they had only been airborne a bit earlier.....

i didn't mean that the amount of fuel had anything to do with taking off but that the captain took on more fuel than was needed for that particular flight, which led to a longer take-off roll and sadly, the crash.

[TallDutch]

i didn't mean that the amount of fuel had anything to do with taking off but that the captain took on more fuel than was needed for that particular flight, which led to a longer take-off roll and sadly, the crash.

As said before, it was a chain of events which resulted in this tragic event. Of course the cause of an incident should be known but only to prevent disasters like this in the future, not for the sake of fingerpointing or to blame someone.
The relatives of the captain are 'punished' enough already as they lost their husband/father/son. Try to see it from this point of view..

[Magnum]

Hi GUys lnow lets go back to 1977 where the worst disaster happened in Tenerife Who is Responsable for the Crash
Cheers Christopher Siegrist

I had extensive training while in the FAA on the "chain" of events. If you look at any and all disasters, you will find that there was no ONE cause for the accident. It was the result of a chain of errors. Our training at the FAA was centered around the concept of "breaking the chain". The idea is to recognize that an error has, or is about to occur and to immediately correct or prevent that one error. By doing so, you have just broken the chain leading to an event. You will more than likely never know what the event was going to be that you prevented, but you did prevent it. That is the key.
This applies on both sides of the microphone.

[StarMonarA380]

Great, just bring this up when I'm going to Tenerife soon!!

Lol seriously though, I'm going to Tenerife Norte airport to film the Iberia A340, looks like a beautiful place. Hard to imagine it as the setting for the most horrific aviation disaster in history (apart from 9/11 of course).

StarMonarA380:D

[mnztr]

I always wondered if the Pan Am's attempt to get of the runway at the last moment made the accident unavoidable. If the Pan Am had not swung it's fuselage out across the runway, would the KLM have been able to clear it's wing and avoid the accident? Watching the documentry, it's almost spokey the concidences that had to occur for the accident to happen. The greatest factor in the accident was the KLM captains takeoff with clearance. The radio interference is also awful, someone please tell me AC radios are better now???

[c150student]

Nope. If 2 people speak together, the result is usually that none can be heard,

A common phrase at my local airfield is 'Two together, both unreadable' by ATC. It may be different for the big birds though. Though I have to say I havent heard many of the squeals (heterodynes) recently.

[27driver]

I always wondered if the Pan Am's attempt to get of the runway at the last moment made the accident unavoidable. If the Pan Am had not swung it's fuselage out across the runway, would the KLM have been able to clear it's wing and avoid the accident? Watching the documentry, it's almost spokey the concidences that had to occur for the accident to happen. The greatest factor in the accident was the KLM captains takeoff with clearance. The radio interference is also awful, someone please tell me AC radios are better now???

The KLM 74 still struck the fuselage of the Pan Am 74...and would have done so no matter where PA was trying to turn.

And radios are better...but the heterodyne still exists...(just heard one this morning).

[Avianca]

It was the KLM pilot's fault... it's very obvious.


The KLM pilot took off without takeoff clearance. Why doesn't anyone seem to get that this is what ACTUALLY caused the crash? I will say it again... HE TOOK OFF WITHOUT TAKEOFF CLEARANCE.

No, it wasn't the Pan Am pilot's fault... they were exactly where they were suppost to be. They even said they were still on the runway.

[mnztr]

It was the KLM pilot's fault... it's very obvious.
The KLM pilot took off without takeoff clearance. Why doesn't anyone seem to get that this is what ACTUALLY caused the crash? I will say it again... HE TOOK OFF WITHOUT TAKEOFF CLEARANCE.

No, it wasn't the Pan Am pilot's fault... they were exactly where they were suppost to be. They even said they were still on the runway.

Well of course the critical error was made by the KLM captain, but the terminology used is VERY loose. When the KLM requsted clearance, the ATC said "you are cleared to the papa beacon" then loose terms like "we are at takeoff" etc were used. English is a very imprecise language. I'm really amazed that airliners have not yet adopted some sort of digital comunication system for critical commands. Voice command is just not precise enough in these crowded skies and airports

[Piltdown Man]

We have, and as ever, we still rely upon MK I human beings to make sure that the computers do as they are told to. And it still goes wrong!

Returning to Tenerife, we have changed they way we speak, the places we can and cannot use certain words and most important of all, the way we operate as a crew. Blame is a very childish thing to insist upon in aviation incidents. It only makes lawyers rich and does nothing for safety. Instead, we should all try our very best to lobby our politicians to make sure that we have unbiased and professional accident investigation whose job it is to try and prevent future re-occurances. In the UK we are extremely lucky that we have the AAIB and in the US the NTSB. But there are too many countries in the World where they don't have such organisations.

PM